My husband and I have often talked about spanking as a form of discipline. This is one topic that parents get all flustered about as they argue their personal view and try to unveil the most loving, effective and ethical way to discipline.
I’m not much of an ‘all or nothing’ kinda gal in my parenting advice, but when talking with husband about spanking he said something that has really made me think.
He asked, “Would it make a difference if I hit you… just once? ” Well, yeah, I wouldn’t stand for it, even once… one little hit and he’s outta here. In my opinion, hitting people you love is wrong and once is one time too many. With hitting… it is all or nothing.
What if we, as a society, still did “lashes” for small offenses? Say, someone lies to you and you respond, “That is unacceptable behavior, now turn around while I hit you for it.” Or you’re in Kroger and the cashier responds with a snide comment or “talks back to you” then you reach up and punch them in the bum? “No” you say, that is barbaric. I’ll agree – the quick, passionate barbaric punch may be a bit over the top.
But if it is a calculated, quick, passionate barbaric hit, lash or spank is it any better? Spanking shouldn’t be out of anger, right? But if someone was calculating and calm when they hit you, wouldn’t it be every eerier and more barbaric? Would it matter if someone was calm when they hit you as opposed to angry? Would it matter if it happened as a rule, or happened only once? How would it affect your relationship with that person?
Is there a difference in spanking children as a rule and occasionally spanking because nothing else seemed to work? If you’re against spanking in general, does it makes a difference if you slip once or twice and spank? Hmmm… some very meaty food for thought.
Btw, said husband doesn’t hit, at all. I’m proud to say that his love for me and his children abounds and builds confidence without having to prove his strength.
What do you think about occasional spanking vs. spanking as a rule?
#1 by Erin at January 19th, 2010
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I think spanking is always wrong. I understand doing it out of frustration, but it’s still wrong. I just don’t “get” using hitting to teach a lesson. It doesn’t make sense. I can teach lessons without hitting my children. As you said, it would never be okay for my husband to hit me in order to teach me a lesson–why is it okay to hit someone so much smaller than you?
#2 by Robyn at January 19th, 2010
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I am not advocating spanking in any way but would like to point out that there is a big difference between domestic violence and spanking. This is why it is accepted within our society to spank kids but not adults. A husband who “spanks” his wife has placed himself in a role that is not ever appropriate and that is definitely not an appopriate role. It is also illegal within the US. Punishment is something only parents can provide their children. Any spouse that punishes their partner is violating a basic foundation of the spousal relationship.
A parent who spanks is not a bad person, just someone who is unaware that there are amazing punishments out there that teach great lessons. They are usually also unaware that by providing proper structure and discipline within your home, the need for punishment is often reduced. Adults do, in fact, have a right to punish their children by spanking because they have been entrusted by the state to raise them. Adults never have the right to punish each other because we have already, hopefully, been raised to be productive adults so I would definitely leave if hit by the hubby.
I can only remember being spanked 4 or 5 times in my entire childhood. My mother had exhausted every other punishment she knew about and I remember being properly warned before the spanking and I kept doing what I was doing. She also didn’t have the immense resources we have now. I can say I wasn’t harmed, my IQ is not low, and feel I am a productive member of society. I don’t feel sorry for kids who are spanked on rare occasions. I feel sorry for the ones who are spanked every day by uneducated, ignorant parents who are unwilling to learn about other options.
#3 by Clark Shuman at January 19th, 2010
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I’m just curious….what is your understanding about “spanking” from the scriptures? I am in no way trying to start something, but just interested in how scripture supports or prohibits spanking. I will not reply or argue!
#4 by Clark Shuman at January 19th, 2010
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PS…that question is for Lauren or anyone else who sees scripture as the authoritative Word of God.
#5 by Lauren at January 19th, 2010
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Clark. First off, I started a house fire while trying to respond to your post! I walked into the kitchen and the water had boiled over and there were literally flames! amazing.
Second off, I really appreciate your question. I, honestly, wasn’t even considering this from a strictly Biblical point of view, but from a human perspective – trying to understand man’s rationale for spanking vs. hitting your spouse. I think that whether you come from a Biblical worldview, or somewhere else, these questions are important as we continue to grow as a society.
#6 by Erin at January 19th, 2010
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I do not believe God ever called us to hit our kids. If you do some research into what it said in its original context and language, the verse most often used to support spanking is “Spare the rod, spoil the child.” The rod refers to leading a child, not hitting them.
#7 by Robyn at January 19th, 2010
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I have used the Bible as a basic blueprint for raising my kids. It provides a great deal of guidance for discipline, but not really punishment, which are 2 very different things. I believe that people who quote “spare the rod, spoil the child,” would be unable to name the proverb that is from and would also be unable to name any other guidance in childrearing. I personally go by, “fathers, do not discourage your children,” “do not provoke your children to anger,” “train up a child as they should go and when they are old they will not depart from that.” I was always taught that the rod and rebuke that Solomon referred to was a shepherd’s rod, used to guide, not to hit. I have never seen a shepherd hit a sheep. Most passages about parenting are about encouragement and teaching.
#8 by Alicia Broaddus at January 19th, 2010
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Wow – certainly a touchy, and controversial subject. But oh so necessary to address.
First, I want to note that our children belong to God and are entrusted to us by Him alone. We should treat them accordingly, with love and respect – and we should love them enough to discipline them (understanding that discipline is good and it does not necessarily mean spanking). We will answer to God for how we discipline our children (believers or not).
We must not neglect to realize that our children do not belong to the state and the state does not entrust them to us! The state (the United States in the Declaration of Independence) acknowledges that we have certain inalienable rights. Those rights come from God (inalienable…means not granted by the state…we already have them).
Our founding fathers respected that, and did not in any way grant them to us, but made sure our rights were acknowledged by the state. Our rights are protected – unless we aquiesce. If we go down that slippery path and allow the state to take over our own responsibilities we will see huge intrusion by the state in our personal lives. And, what if the state is in conflict with God…which they are on many counts? Then what? Harder then…so, we must always strive to protect our rights and keep the state in check within God’s authority.
And, while it does sound like a reasonable arguement that we do not to hit someone in public because the state doesn’t dole out corporal punishment, are we to assume that we can lock someone in the restroom or their car because the state does hand down those types of punishments? Or not just anyone, but how about criminals, can we as individuals punish them ourselves? No, that’s for the state, that’s their realm.
We must be careful to realize that there are various God-given realms of authority. Yes, the state has some God-given authority over society as a whole. That’s why we are told by God to pray for and respect those in authority. That authority is to be carried out according to God’s word (sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t – but his plan is that is should – and they will answer to Him where they do not).
Parents are given a different realm of authority – one over our children. That’s part of what contributes to a healthy society. Parents exercise their realm of authority in raising their children in the hopes that the state doesn’t have to exercise their realm of authority over the children when they’re grown.
All offenses are not treated the same by God in terms of consequences, all are not treated the same by the state, and all should not be treated the same by parents. As a parent you must strive to use the proper and appropriate method of discipline for your children. Various offenses carry various punishments…spankins isn’t for all of them. Use it sparingly less it become ineffective.
That being said, let’s look at how God disciplines us. Are we allow to suffer sometimes dire consequences for the foolish choices we make? Yes, though sometimes we are spared that, or it is delayed. And, why would God allow us to suffer for our mistakes? Why, because He loves us and wants us to make wise choices for ourselves and for others.
In fact, God prefers that we obey rather than be punished, suffer consequences or sacrifice. Which is why so much of the bible is dedicated to “wisdom”. Yet, He ultimately knew we wouldn’t follow that – which is why he sent Jesus to pay our “sentence”. God even punished His own Son for us.
I believe that it is possible for parents to disciple children without spanking,…yet…at times spanking may be necessary.
Spanking should never be done in anger (how will we teach self-discipline if we cannot exercise it ourselves?) I don’t think spanking is a “last resort” because that leads one to doing so out of frustration when other methods have not worked. Rather, spanking should be clearly understood as the “punishment” for certain offenses.
I very rarely spanked my children (now grown), and only for two offenses:
1. if they deliberately challenged me and would not submit to my authority
2. if they purposely hurt another with malicious intent (or purposely placed themselves in an extremely dangerous situation – which I saw as the same thing).
I have never spanked my grandchildren…but then I’m a grandparent and it seems a disapproving look from a grandparent goes a long way. True enough early on I came to an understanding with each of them – once, and we have maintained that level of understanding so far.
Spanking would be in the realm of the parent. I don’t even think it would be effective from grandparents (unless they were raising the kids).
Here are a few scriptures on the subject. And, to be sure the “rod of dicipline” is not always physical. But, if you do a search on http://www.biblegateway.com for “rod”, you’ll find that it’s almost always used as a “physical” threat.
And, even the shepherds carried a rod which was used to “guide” and sometimes rescue the sheep. We must use the tools of discipline in a loving, effective way and remember that there are no simle answers.
Proverbs 13:24
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
Proverbs 13:23-25
Proverbs 22:15
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.
Proverbs 22:14-16
Proverbs 23:13
Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.
Proverbs 23:12-14
#9 by Michelle at January 20th, 2010
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I cannot imagine ever hitting my children. It is so completely disresepctful. We aren’t allowed to hit prisoners, employees, or other adults, so why should it be okay to hit children, simply because they are younger and smaller and because the state has entrusted their little lives to us to do as we will? Plus, seriously, how do you teach a child not to hit when you are hitting them? Research clearly show that spanking is OUT as a form of effective discipline. Children who are spanked, when compared to children who are not spanked, are more likely to become adults who are depressed, use alcohol, have more anger, hit their own children, hit their spouses, and engage in crime and violence. As one who sees a wide spectrum of families and children, I can 100% guarantee you that children who are not spanked are far more likely to be well-behaved — likely not only because of the lack of physical punishment but because their families are smart and stable enough to have found more effective forms of child-rearing. Children who are treated with respect and love learn to be respectful and loving. Children who are taught via fear, intimidation, and violence learn different lessons.
Personally, I was spanked only a few times during childhood, and I remember. It was humiliating and even as a child, it felt wrong. It did not make me respect my parents — in fact, quite the contrary. It made me feel ashamed of my family. Thinking back, I don’t have many negative memories of my parents, but those particular events are seared into my memory (and the spanking episodes weren’t excessive or “inappropriate,” BTW). So spanking parents, spank thoughtfully, and know that you might be searing your angry behavior into the mind of your child such that 30yrs later, he/she will still remember it with the utmost of clarity. In fact, I have no memory of what I was spanked for, but I certainly remember that it negatively impacted my perception of my parents, the way no other events in my childhood did.
#10 by Clark Shuman at January 20th, 2010
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Interesting convo! I still would love to hear from someone who does feel spanking is a healthy response to discipline issues. Chime in! I’ve sworn myself not to comment!
#11 by Vera at January 21st, 2010
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Interesting topic! Since everyone here referred to he Bible as the finite and authoritative source of wisdom and truth, I’d like to encourage everyone to actually read the book of Proverbs – very captivating and eye-opening. It’s not very big, plus the reading is enjoyable too. When I went through the chapters, I found a few verses about discipline and rods: 1) Prov. 13:24 “He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.” 2) Prov. 23:13-14: “Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death.” 3) Prov. 29:15: “The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother.” Remember, we are talking here about discipline with love and patience vs. physical abuse done in anger and revenge. So, for those of you who refuse to acknowledge spanking as a means of healthy part of upbringing your children (i.e.: doing it in privacy vs. in public), maybe misunderstand the concept of it and/or have had a sad experience in your life where spanking was misused. My mom spanked me on occasion when i was younger (I can’t remember for what – I trust her judgement
, and I still am very close to her and love her immensely.
#12 by Lauren at January 21st, 2010
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New question… for those of you that agree spanking can be an effective way to discipline, what age is ‘too’ young to spank?
#13 by just another mom at January 21st, 2010
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I’ve enjoyed reading everyones thoughts and comments. My husband and I chose to spank our children as an appropriate form of discipline in our home. When we spank, ONLY BY THE GRACE of God, it is our desire that it be carried out with careful words, guidance, assurance of love, and self control (and wisdom). I 100% agree that there are wrong ways to go about spanking. It is my belief that God has mandated that we discipline our children (- not our spouses). This is ONE of the ways we have chosen to do this in our home. It is a consequence that we use, to ultimately and most importantly, point our children to the only ONE who can save us from our sin.
as to appropriate age – I only know when I felt my kids were able to understand this consequence and comprehend the process. And it seemed to be different ages for both children. I think there are lots of things to assess about your child before using spanking as discipline and I always have tried to err on the side of caution with this.
#14 by Rebekah at January 21st, 2010
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I think to have an effective “spank v. no spank” debate you really have to start off with the assumption that a parent is spanking their children correctly: there was (a) a conscious and willful disobedience on the part of the child, (b) the child understand the consequences of their action will result in a spanking, (c) the punishment is consistent, (d) the parent doesn’t spank their child while they are angry, (e) they don’t spank their child in front of other people to shame them, (f) and the punishment is used to lovingly guild the child toward a corrected action AND corrected attitude.
If you are a “spanking parent” and don’t do the above, then you’re practicing the discipline incorrectly and it can lead to many of the negative outcomes addressed above.
Honestly, when it comes to disciplining your kids I’m starting to think the method is much less important than simply being consistent. It’s the lack of consistency that leads to poorly disciplined kids and not whether you put them in time out or spank them. It’s the inconsistent parents that end up hitting their kids out of anger or bribing their kids with new toys just so they’ll stop screaming and put their seat belt on.
I spank my children when appropriate, and I have complete respect for parents that choose not to. Being a parent is hard work and I think that rather than shit on other parents who don’t do things exactly the way we do, we should work with each other and support one another as we strive to do the best we can for our kids, the best way we know how.
#15 by Lauren at January 22nd, 2010
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Thanks for all the great feedback and passionate responses. We can all learn something from each other, which is why I opened up this blog for feedback and started such a controversial topic.
This blog was inspired by a Dr. Phil episode and a conversation with my husband. Here’s the link to what Dr. Phil has blogged about spanking:
http://blog.drphil.com/2010/01/05/to-spank-or-not-to-spank/
I guess my main concern is that so many people adamantly support spanking and defend it with religion or faith when there are many other ways, less controversial and more creative ways to discipline your child that don’t need defensiveness.
I know and respect many parents that have decided to spank their children and realize that it can be a calm way to discipline. I still believe it can be confusing for children (as Dr. Phil states). Also, there are more parents out there that cannot control themselves when given “permission” to hit. I have heard dads talk about “letting their kids have it” and “busting their butts” which do not seem like calm responses for me. If nothing else, the defense of spanking sends confusing messages to less calm parents. When paired with their proclaimed religion, you have a recipe for disaster and permission to hit kids.
I have spanked my 3 year old before and hated it. I believe that with a little extra effort and creativity better solutions and clear consistent standards can be set for children. They can be guided gently without hitting. I strive to set boundaries for my kids without spanking and would love some feedback from non-spanking parents on ways to set boundaries.
As always, I recommend Dr. Sears’ advice on discipline. Here’s a link to a discussion on his site.
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T060300.asp
#16 by Vera at January 23rd, 2010
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I really like Alicia’s post! Every child is so unique, and every situation is so different, that’s why it’s hard to come up with the answer of when and at what age to spank, my mom actually echos Alicia’s thoughts.
#17 by Robyn at January 26th, 2010
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I have many times heard it said that if you provide proper discipline (rules, structure, etc) that punishment will rarely be needed. I have found it to be very true. If we structure our time, allow little opportunity for trouble by having activities, etc, we have an episode requiring punishment maybe weekly. Our punishments tend to fit the offense and have been built by the immense parenting resources out there. When I was little, my mom had access to 2 parenting books. I own one of them along with several I bought when I was in my MSW program and some I got after the kids were born. We have access to more than what our mothers have. I am glad to see so many are using these resources and finding other forms of punishment.